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New York Times columnist David Brooks and Washington Post associate editor Jonathan Capehart join Geoff Bennett to discuss the week in politics, including yet another chaotic, down-to-the-wire funding battle in Congress, how President-elect Trump will govern during his second term and the political influence of Elon Musk.
Notice: Transcripts are machine and human generated and lightly edited for accuracy. They may contain errors.
Geoff Bennett:
Congress spent the week on yet another chaotic, down-to-the-wire funding battle.
So, as we close out the week, we turn tonight to the analysis of Brooks and Capehart. That’s New York Times columnist David Brooks, and Jonathan Capehart, associate editor for The Washington Post.
Jonathan, I will start with you. What’s your assessment of the drama surrounding this government funding battle? Keeping the government funded is the basic function of Congress. It should be this straightforward, noncontroversial process, not the source of political brinksmanship, and yet…
Jonathan Capehart:
And yet. Noncontroversial, I love that description, because it hasn’t been that way since Kevin McCarthy was speaker of the House.
Look, you had Speaker Johnson negotiating in good faith, if you listened to congressional Democrats, with them to come up with what we can now call plan A. It wasn’t what Speaker Johnson had promised his caucus. It was a more-than-1,000-page bill, had lots of stuff in it, but it kept the government open. It got disaster aid. It did a bunch of things.
And, what was it, Monday, early in the morning, Elon Musk starts tweeting against it. Then president-elect Donald Trump joins in. You can’t expect anything to get passed if you swoop in at the last minute and blow up the deal and then blow up the second deal by saying, oh, we should just eliminate the debt ceiling, when you have got people in your own conference who ran on cutting the debt and things like that.
And so what happened this week, to me, was not surprising. What is surprising is that they actually got a deal done and they got it passed with a lot of votes.
Geoff Bennett:
And, David, there have been those Republicans who have said that, by taking aim at the Washington status quo, that Donald Trump did exactly what he said he would do on the campaign trail, and especially since the government is viewed with such distrust by those on the populist right.
David Brooks:
Yes, I actually thought — I had a positive week with this. I thought all parties had a piece of the truth.
So Donald Trump was absolutely right. We should get rid of debt ceiling. The debt ceiling is sort of a sham procedure. If we want to cut spending and do fiscal discipline, we should do it during the appropriations process or the authorization process, not with this weird thing called the debt ceiling.
The second people who are right were the 38 Republicans who defied Donald Trump, who said, if we’re going to get rid of the debt ceiling, we should actually cut spending. And they were right about that.
But then Speaker Johnson was also right, that this is not the time. In the hours before a government shutdown, you can’t do something massive like cutting $1.2 trillion out of the federal budget. So I think Speaker Johnson did the right thing. And Donald Trump learned a lesson, which is, there’s realities here.
You can say things on the campaign trail, but there are realities in governance. And the realities often have to do with the timetable. And Donald Trump weighed in at the wrong time. If he wants to do it when he’s president, fine. He’s on the right course on this. But he can’t just do it just at the last minute, when you’re not even president yet.
And so I think what we learned is that at first 38 and then hundreds of Republicans defied Donald Trump in order to deal with the reality in front of them.
Geoff Bennett:
Jonathan, David mentioned Elon Musk. I mean, what about his influence? Because he led the rebellion against the initial bill, as you mentioned. And The Post reported that his swift accumulation of political power has sparked criticism that the incoming Trump administration will function like an oligarchy.
Jonathan Capehart:
Well, yes, because, remember, this all got started, not because Donald Trump weighed in first. Elon Musk weighed in. And he’s the — he — I just start calling him the first buddy. He is in on all the phone calls. He’s in on all the meetings.
No one elected him to anything, no one. And yet Republicans on the Hill listened to what he had to say. Donald Trump listened to what he had to say. There’s a reason why Democrats this week were calling — were saying — were calling him President Musk and then calling Donald Trump Donald Trump.
If what we saw this week is prologue for what the Trump administration is going to be like, what the 119th Congress is going to be like, we should be prepared for continual weeks like the one we had now.
Geoff Bennett:
David, what does this suggest about what we can expect moving forward, especially as Donald Trump will likely have to renew his tax cut plan? And he says he wants to embark upon this mass deportation of undocumented immigrants. That’s going to take coordinating with Congress to a certain degree.
David Brooks:
Yes, again, it’s reality.
First on Elon Musk, Donald Trump’s been against the debt ceiling for a long time. He didn’t need Elon Musk to tell him that. As for Elon Musk, this bromance is going to end in tears. We’re all — I give it 30 days, maybe 60 days, something like that. We’re all going to be crying as they part ways and they start taking shots at each other.
I don’t expect Elon Musk to be around for very long, but presidents get to advisers. And if Elon Musk can do some good, then maybe he can do some good. I mean, one of the things that even Democrats are saying is that they missed the chance when they were in office to reform government. If you’re trying to improve the Medicare, if you’re trying to improve the delivery of veteran services, there are government rules and regulations that impinge and block you from actually improving the way government works.
And sensible Democrats know that and they should have done something about it. If Elon Musk, some billionaire, walks in and can reform some of the rules that are impinging the way the government works, all to it. I don’t expect that to happen, but what I expect is that Donald Trump has some right instincts about immigration, about reforming government, but he does not know anything about the reality of governance.
And so my posture right now is let’s let him try. He’s got some instincts that are terrible and some instincts that are not terrible. And let’s let him try. But change in government is just phenomenally hard. And you have to really know what you’re doing. And neither Donald Trump nor Elon Musk really knows how the game is played.
Geoff Bennett:
Jonathan, where was President Biden in all of this? And I raise the question because at one point Donald Trump posted on social media, if there is going to be a shutdown of government, let it begin now under the Biden administration, not after January 20 under Trump, and no response from President Biden himself.
He really seems to have abdicated the bully pulpit.
Jonathan Capehart:
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Why should President Biden get in the middle of a Republican-on-Republican food fight melee?
Why should he? If this were any other time, any other president, everyone would be saying the president is staying out of it because, when you’re when your opponent is digging the hole, just let them dig the hole. So that’s what I think was up with President Biden.
As for Elon Musk, just to go back, David, I will not be crying when the bromance — when the bromance implodes. And while I understand that government needs to be reformed and regulations need to be tightened, what I — the thing that concerns me most about the world’s richest person being in charge of an agency that doesn’t have — really have any power — it’s going to be Congress that has to do something.
I don’t really know what his values are. David’s values are right and true, fix Medicaid, fix Medicare, fix Social Security. I don’t know if that is what Elon Musk is going to be focused on.
Geoff Bennett:
Well, this is the final Brooks and Capehart before the holidays, and this has been quite a year, gentlemen, so much tumult in the world, so much uncertainty and churn and change.
But I want to ask you the one thing that you find yourself most grateful for.
And, David, I will start with you.
David Brooks:
Yes, I’m in New York right now. I’m a few blocks away from the Christmas tree, and this Hollywood — Hollywood — this holiday season is — it’s a time that’s more alive. We all remember this as kids. We’re just more alive.
There was a second century Christian saint named St. Irenaeus, and he said, the glory of God is a human being fully alive. So you walk over to the tree up Fifth Avenue here, and you watch the children with the glory in their eyes, and you can’t help think this is a special magical season. If you’re not a believer, if you are a believer, those of us who are believers, it’s a season when the lord is more present in the world, just because the radical reality of God coming down and being born in a manger that smells like dung, that’s just magical.
And so you see it right there on the streets, right all around me.
Geoff Bennett:
How about you, Jonathan?
Jonathan Capehart:
I mean, I can’t even top that.
I mean, look, I don’t know about grateful. I mean, I answered this question during Thanksgiving. I guess my answer is a little more political, and I don’t think of it as grateful as much as what brings me optimism for the new year.
And what brings me optimism is the 50.1 percent of the American people who voted for someone other than Donald Trump. And that brings me optimism, because, after he’s inaugurated on January 20, it is going to be those Americans who will be called upon to defend American values, to defend their communities, and to defend their loved ones for whatever may come their way from a new Trump administration.
Geoff Bennett:
Optimism seems to be in short supply in our politics these days.
David, what can we look to feel better about the current state of our politics?
David Brooks:
Postponement. I have just started to postpone my panic.
(Laughter)
David Brooks:
Terrible things may happen. I’m going to wait for it. I’m not going to react to everything Donald Trump says. I’m not going to panic until there’s time to panic. And maybe there will come time in January and February that things will be really harsh.
But, right now, I’m just going to enjoy the holiday season.
Geoff Bennett:
Well, David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart, our best to you both and your families at this holiday season.
Jonathan Capehart:
Thanks, Geoff. Same to you.
David Brooks:
Appreciate it.
Jonathan Capehart:
Same to you, David.
David Brooks:
Thank you, Geoff.
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Geoff Bennett Geoff Bennett
Geoff Bennett serves as co-anchor of PBS News Hour. He also serves as an NBC News and MSNBC political contributor.
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